Season 2! Risk Management, Challenges and Ideas

In this episode, we kick off season 2 with a conversation between the two of us about some of the things we have been working on this past summer that are designed to support other outdoor educators in taking their students out of the classroom and into the natural environment.

These include identifying some of the challenges that specifically outdoor learning teachers face and potential solutions to those challenges, a how to take your students camping handbook, and a tried and true risk management handbook.  All of these have been worked on in collaboration with a bunch of experienced outdoor learning educators and are available on the website listed below.

In this episode, we delve a little deeper into the risk management portion of the website today giving an overview of what you will find on the website and sharing some stories from our own outdoor learning experiences.

Access our research, project ideas and more at:
https://engagedstudent.weebly.com/outdoor-learning.html

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey there and welcome back to the Outdoor Learning Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

I'm Derek Hyland. And I'm Chris Clark. We're two outdoor educators based in Saskatchewan, coming to you from Treaty Six Territory and the traditional homeland of the Metis.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

We're excited to kick off season two where we'll continue to explore what it really means to teach and learn outside.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

This season, we're building on the conversations we started in season one, diving deeper into the practical, the inspirational, and sometimes the messy reality of outdoor learning.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Whether you're just stepping outside with your students for the first time or you've been leading outdoor learning for years, this podcast is here to support you.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

You'll hear from fellow educators who are doing amazing work outside the four walls of a classroom.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

We'll talk about everything from planning and risk taking to storytelling, land-based learning, and connecting students with place and community.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Our goal? Season two starts now. This is the Outdoor Learning Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Sweet. Okay. I'm excited to get rolling in uh season two here. Chris, it's been a while. Yeah, it has been actually. Like when was our last episode? You know, I'm not sure, but it's okay. It's okay. We're moving forward now, and and we're excited to be back and having conversations. What do you uh what do you want to talk about today? Just you and me.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

We're just stuck with the two of us. Oh, that's right. Uh no guests today to bounce ideas off and whatever else. I guess it's all on us. Yeah. We've been working this summer, actually, you and I, with a bunch of other outdoor educators, on a bunch of different things, including uh basically a risk management document, a camping document, and a barriers and solutions document. So I think that's something that we can uh start sharing with people right now. Sweet.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

So the point of these documents is to kind of address some of the issues, talk about things that we've learned and try to help um people who are maybe new to it or people who have been doing outdoor learning for a while, just rethink about maybe their procedures or think about how things are going and maybe try to run things more smoothly.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Well, and the whole idea is to really try and leverage all this experience that we are connected to. I mean, it it's if if one person tried to create their own set of risk management guidelines, they're gonna miss something. Whereas with all the different voices and all the different experiences and all the different stories that we've already gathered, right? It just, I mean, it it's the age-old thing, right? I mean, one person can do a lot, but five people, ten people can do way, way more. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

And I mean, just all the mistakes that have been made by those people add a bit of flavor to to where they're coming from as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yes, there was definitely some good stories shared. So the risk management document is basically, I mean, and actually, I mean, all of these things, well, the risk management one and the barriers anyway, we've added it to the website that uh is linked in this podcast in an effort to share what we've been talking about and the solutions that we found and stuff like that with our listeners and any and anybody. I mean, the whole idea is to create free resources that anybody can access and take what they need from it, take what they want from it. I mean, if they're a brand new beginner, it gives them lots of starting points. If they're an experienced outdoor learning educator, it might jog some things and prompt provoke some things and prompt some things that they haven't thought about. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

So uh, you know, if you are a you know, read alonger, you can head over to engagestudent.weebly.com. And uh we'll put a link in the notes and uh you know you can follow along. But uh I think part of the risk management or a big part of the risk management is talking about building capacity, right? It's not about you and all of your rules necessarily, it's more about uh what are the procedures you have in place.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Would that be asked? Exactly. I would I would say so. And because I mean again, as I you know talk with people all the time about it, I mean, if you're the only person doing risk management and your students aren't, your parents aren't, your other staff aren't, you I mean, A, you have a really big job that's almost impossible. In fact, I I would say it is impossible. And meanwhile, you're not doing a very good job of risk management. I mean, part of part of the whole, I mean, we're we're we're educating, we're teaching. And so, I mean, first of all, you should be educating your students on how to do their own risk management, but meanwhile, it also makes the trips that much more successful, that much safer. But it also means that you can do bigger and bigger trips because when your students get the capacity to do their own risk management, then you don't have to micromanage everything to keep everyone safe.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

I started trying to use uh as I was going through this, uh, one of the things that that had a story maybe. Uh I can't remember exactly where it was, or it was in the conversations around uh how do we make sure we're all safe here? was kind of a question that popped up. And so I started using this with different places with my grade eights when we came to, you know, we're out in the park or we're out wherever we are talking about, you know, like what's what are potentials for issue that could arise here and how would we how would we make sure that we all stay safe here? And the students actually were they had lots of ideas and lots of concepts and things that I hadn't thought about for for either things that might come up or how they might deal with them. And some were not great ways to deal with them, and we we could talk through that, and you know, some were some were perfectly fine. So it was so it was an interesting uh exercise with the students.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Well, and that's the thing. I mean, again, you know, it it's always kind of funny how we have our own assumptions and we have our own ideas on how we're gonna do things, and we've done things, I mean, and and as all individuals, we do things the same way over and over again quite often until somebody else provokes a new idea. And students are just as capable of that as anybody else.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Totally. And I think uh one of the things in this risk management document is like, don't start with, you know, don't make your first thing that you do with your students a canoe trip, right? Don't make it a ridiculous huge thing, but start talking about risk management, start uh talking about responsibility and freedoms uh just outside in the backyard of the school, and maybe walking to a park, and then maybe uh maybe after you have that, maybe then you try biking somewhere, and then maybe, you know, and we'll just like moving forward um from a small place and go up from there.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Well, because that's also connected to literally some of the challenges that teachers face too. You know, they I mean I get asked this all the time. Well, what do you do with, for instance, if an administrator doesn't support what you're doing or is pushing back on it or whatever else? Well, it's like, again, if you are a brand new teacher, brand new teacher, period, or a brand new teacher to outdoor learning, and the very first, like you just said, the very first thing you decide to do is this four-day camping trip and you've never even taken them out to the park, well, don't be too surprised if your administration pushes back. They should push back. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, exactly. You haven't demonstrated, you haven't demonstrated your capacity yet. And you certainly haven't trained your kids and given them capacity yet. I mean, September, September is when you start practicing, and September is when you start developing these things. And as you, as you get more capacity and your students get more capacity, then the sky's the limit.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

One of the parts in the document is uh learning from failures and giving people the chance to, you know, make mistakes. And uh it just reminded me of uh I always allow my students to climb trees no taller than if I could reach up and touch their foot, that's as high as they can go. Right. So they have about eight feet that they can climb up. And um it's never ever, you know, it's always been good. They've always tried it out, they've learned if they're more cautious, they'll stay lower. Like uh, and we go to one place where there's like kind of trees and a couple of different parks where they're very accessible to get in and out. Uh, and and I never allow anyone to help you into a tree because if you can't climb up, then you're not gonna be able to climb out. So you got to be able to get in and out on your own. Uh and it worked great. And then uh a couple of years ago, we had to change our policy that like before you climb, you have to look up into the tree because there was uh this park that we'd gone to all the time, but over the weekend, uh somebody had tried to create started building a little like tree house in the top, and they'd put a couple boards into the trees, but not attached them in any way. So there's just a few like little boards. And when my student was climbing, they you know shook the tree and one of the boards fell through. Nobody got hurt, nothing happened, but but it kind of fell past her. So we're so you know it it that might be an instance where someone might say, no, tree climbing is bad. Someone could get terribly hurt in tree climbing, but maybe we just need to change the policy of like check the tree, make sure you through all the branches, make sure there's nothing random in the tree. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Well, and and that's the thing, too. I mean, again, we're not talking about learning from failures where someone died, no, you know, or got seriously hurt. We're talking about, you know, exactly, you know, safe mistakes. And there, and there are lots of safe mistakes. But if we don't actually allow mistakes to be made, then we basically are rubbing, we're wrapping them in bubble wrap and you might as well stay inside the classroom the whole time. You have to, as the teacher, you have to be, you have to have the capacity and you have to have the comfortableness with going, okay, you know, this is this this amount of risk is is okay. This amount of risk is good learning, you know, and and and and let it happen. Well, and then one of the things that I mean, you know, that I that I've said at the end of these podcasts that quite often too is like, don't be frustrated by failure and don't be satisfied with success. You know, as as things are working out good, you know, raise the bar, go a little farther, try a little harder, give them a little bit more autonomy and see what they do with it.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

I think uh one of the things it also talks about in this document is you know, relationships with your administration and your division, right? If if I'm saying, yeah, I'm gonna let my kids take some risks, but my administrator knows nothing of it, and there is a kid who gets a minor injury, and then you and they they have no clue of what's happening, then that also could be uh that could that could shut down your ability to do things. So it's really important to have open dialogue uh with your administrator and make sure, you know, you know all of the protocols or checklists or whatever it is from your division and from your admin, you know, before you head out adventuring.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Absolutely, absolutely. And the other thing the document talks about is it gives a few examples of some structures that are just good safe practice. And of course, I mean, in the document or sorry, on the webpage that we share some stories when those structures were not uh utilized appropriately. And uh, I mean, in the end, again, no one got hurt, but you know, basically things happened that didn't need to happen because the structures weren't followed, just like for instance, the walking structure. I mean, always having the adult who knows where they're going at the front of the group and not allowing anyone to get in front of them. But I mean, so again, there's lots of good structures on there as far as those sorts of things. I do love the stories.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Like the stories are uh is one thing in this document that I really appreciate because there's always, you know, it's kind of set up with like, here's some things to think about and here's how to set things up, but then also here's some stories about, you know, maybe it going great or maybe it not going great, uh, and what learned from that. So it was so it's kind of a neat feature, feature in here as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Well, and the stories are kind of like our uh favorite mistakes stories that we put off and do in our podcast. Because I mean, uh as we've talked about several times, you know, some of the best learning, actually, I I would actually argue the best learning comes from uh, you know, mistakes or failures or things where we didn't do it, and those things stand out. And I mean, like all these stories stand out in the people's minds as, you know, this is why we don't do this or this is why we do this. There's a re there really in the end, most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time, there's a reason for things.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Uh one of the other things in this document that that I like thinking about with risk management is the idea of like a a pre-mortem and a post-mortem. So thinking about if I'm gonna go do this thing with my students, where are ways that it could go wrong? Before, before we lay uh, you know, before we step out the door, what are some things like like what might be issues that arise? How can I either make sure those issues don't arise, or how can I um pre-teach so that students are prepared for it, or how am I going to be prepared if this, you know, if something does go wrong? Um, and so I I think that's a good practice to get into. Um you know, any anytime, something big or something small as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Totally. And I mean it sort of ties along. And again, I mean, one of the conversations that we've all had is the fact that, you know, we're calling this risk management suggestions or risk management, not even guidelines, just risk management suggestions. It's not a risk assessment checklist, right? And to be perfectly honest, I mean, I've never been a big fan of like risk assessment checklists, because of course you're gonna you're bound to miss something. I mean, like if you have this blank or this this route checklist that you're supposed to follow for assessing if there's problems or whatever else, it I mean, every context is different, every group of kids is different, every every educator is different. But so this like you describe, you know, doing a pre-mortem conversation all the time. What could go wrong? What would we do if that happened? You know, I mean, and and it and it was funny because one of my university students, when I was bringing this up uh last week with them, asked, Well, doesn't what wouldn't that make people more stressed out? And I'm like, well, I mean, you don't talk about the worst, absolute worst thing right out of the gate. You know, you you just start with some small things just to get yourself warmed up and get them warmed up. But it does what it does with that premortem and those conversations is it means that if something does happen, you've already discussed a set of responses. And in the stress of the moment, because something's happened, you're much more likely to implement those responses successfully as compared to now you got to think of the responses. What am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? Well, we've already we already talked about what we're gonna do. This is what we're gonna do. So let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

It's a reason why lifeguards practice what they're doing in simulation, so they know how to do it. Uh, we when we were at the park the other day, we were talking about we I did a team check, and uh one of the students brought up like, well, what would we do if someone wasn't here? And I was like, that's a great question. What do you guys think we should do? And so it uh, you know, we engaged in a in a conversation around like how would we find a person who's missing? And also, if you were the person that was missing, what should you do so that you were not, you know, lost? So it was interesting, just a question that came up from them, but you know, started to think about okay, if we are thinking about these things, what would we do?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Well, and and that's the beauty of the pre-mortem. The brief beauty of the pre-mortem is it's like spontaneous questions and spontaneous ideas of things that we I mean, there's so many things like we can't consider everything. We can't. It's impossible. Anyone that thinks they can plan for anything and everything, they're fooling themselves. Whereas something like that, but it does it, it I mean, I I've never even had that conversation with students, and that's that's a great idea and a and a great thing to think about. I mean, I just you know, and and then it also keeps you from having to be the one that has all the answers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

I thought it would be an interesting uh activity to pre-set up is that go to the park and have one kid that we preset, you're gonna be hiding, and here's where you're gonna go, and you're not gonna come back to your team check, and we're gonna have to enact a missing, like a person protocol and see how it goes. I don't know that it's like, you know, too much, you know, I don't want to stress them out, but we could play it as a game as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Well, that's what that it is that actually when you when you just describe what you just described is one of the wide games that we have in the books. I mean, like you literally could do it as that, but then it it it transfers over quite nicely. Right. It's kind of like a game of sardines.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

How would we how do we you know look for this person in a good way? Exactly. One thing that people I think get caught up sometimes on is like uh what do I need in a first aid kit? How big does my first aid kit have to be? Well, what uh what what are like mandatories? What do you think? What do you think? What would you pack?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Well, I mean, and that's the thing. I mean, like uh first aid kits don't actually have to be that big. I mean, when you buy that Costco first aid kit, man, oh man, it's got stuff in it that I don't think I've ever used or ever will use, right? I mean, like, I mean, the basics, band-aids, yeah, right? I mean, like big band-aid, small band-aids, lots of band-aids, tweezers, a good and a good set of tweezers. Yeah. You know, gauze rolls, gauze pads to stop bleeding, a couple of triangular bandages, and maybe one of those disposable uh uh reflective blankets that are nice and small. But I mean, the whole idea of the first aid kit, I mean, like for me, anyways, I've got the first aid kit in the bottom of every one of my backpacks. So there's not a lot of space there. Yeah. And I and I don't want it to take up a lot of space if I don't have to, because I want it to always be with me. I don't want to have to take it out and forget it and whatever else. So basically, like in the rain, like because all the all my backpacks have that like little raincoat that comes over the backpack. Yeah. So in that pocket where the raincoat is, that's where I put my first aid kit. Nice. But it has to be small enough that it fits in there. And so it that I mean, the things I just described is pretty much all I have in my first aid kit. Yeah. I've throw in, I have all those.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

I usually have a tensor bandage, um, just a set of gloves and one of those uh like bug bite pens, you know, oh afterbite or whatever. Afterbite, yeah, because there was like one time when it just came from one time where some kid as we were biking, some kid like a wasp got in their shoe or something and bit them or like a bunch of times just so their foot was swelling up and they didn't have something, and so it's like we're trying to find the right plant. So I was like, if we can find you know this plant, we can make a poultice, but then it was it just would be easier just to have a little allergy pen.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

So just in case I throw that down too. That's a good idea. Well, and again, it all comes from stories. Yeah, it all comes from experiences. Yeah, this one time is one thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

If you got something for little issues, you got something for for splinters, you got something for a scrape. Anything more than that, you're calling in a backup.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

So well, that's the thing. Like, I mean, like I mean, you don't need a trauma kit. Yeah. Now, again, this is also my back. Well, this is all exactly. This is also my first aid kit for just day trips, right? I mean, for a camping trip, obviously, a person's taking a full-size first aid kit just because you got more time or you or it's it's not as easy to do things otherwise. Right. Well, one of the things that uh we talk about on this web page document too, as well, is the whole idea of what I mean, the whole notion of postponing or canceling a trip. Right. Yeah. Because again, there's lots of reasons to do it. And it's one of those things, I mean, there's been many a phone call that I've received over the last few years, you know, from individuals, you know, who who are leading their trips, whatever else. And it's funny because it it it usually happens around like when it's smoke season or when it's nasty weather, thunder, lightning, whatever else. And it's and it's always funny when my phone rings and I know exactly why they're phoning. They're just phoning to get that, you know, second opinion, exactly. And it's and it's you know, it's like we're thinking we have to cancel our trip. What do you think? And of course, my response always is it's like, well, the fact that you're thinking it tells you your answer already. You don't need my opinion. You just need you just all you really need from me is reassurance that that's a good decision to make. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Well, and I think both of us have had times when because like a trip is a lot of work to put everything together, and sometimes you might not get deposits back, or like there's a lot of ripple effects of canceling that trip. Um but I think both of us have had trips where we've gone on where we were getting sick that we probably shouldn't have gone on that just like yeah, I think I think I had a winter camp once where I I can't remember exactly what it was. I think it was like a bit of a sore throat, and uh, and I was like, I don't think that this is that bad. And then the morning that we left, I was like, this is a little worse, but I think we're still good. And then by the end of the trip, I was just like taking Advil or Tylenol or whatever on the regular because my throat was on fire and I had like like infected tonsils or something. I had to take like four days off work when I came home because it was just like that was that was dumb. I probably should have just called it.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Well, and it's and exactly, and we talk about that on the webpage, but it is hard to make that decision. I mean, just like you pointed out, you know, all these all this planning's gone into it, all the booking. I mean, like, even if you postpone the trip, even if you don't cancel it, you just postpone it, it's still a royal pain in the butt. There's rental vehicles sometimes, there's buses and all, and of course, then meanwhile, the kids are all psyched up for it. But I mean, the reality is, is that there's a time and a place when you have to cancel the trip. And that's that's part of being the trip leader. That's part of making, I mean, you've chosen to make the tough decisions to do this thing. You gotta be willing to make the tough decisions to say, nope, we can't do it, and just and and just live with it. That's just that's just is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

And sometimes it sucks, and there's nothing else that you can do, but it's better to, you know, pull out at a good time than to get into a situation that you really don't need to be in, or you could have not been in just because you wanted to go.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Exactly. I mean, and it was funny because the one time um I had a conversation with teachers, and of course, they were worried about smoke. And of course, we had tons of fire smoke, and the pr and the weather forecast was for tons of fire smoke. It was it was horrible that day, and it was supposed to be horrible the next day. And they were like, I think we got to cancel the trip. And I'm like, I totally agree with you. I mean, like, if it's like this, you can't, I mean, like, it's gonna be miserable. You can't even be in your tent safely. Yeah. And I said, be prepared for if you cancel this trip, be prepared for the weather being awesome tomorrow. And just, and don't, don't second guess yourself, don't worry about it. And sure enough, like they they made the decision, they canceled the trip. And the very next day, the day dawned. It was blue sky, beautiful weather. It would have been a perfect trip. Yeah. But it's like I said, I said, that's that you you that's just life. You gotta make the decision, and you can't predict that. But if if it had been the other way around, it would have been horrible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Ski trips are like the number one thing for us always. You know, it's like, uh, should we go? Should we not go? How close is it? It always seems to have we always seem to have issues with yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

With those. All right. So, what about the other document? Challenges to outdoor learning. Now, it's funny because I mean, one of the one of the stories that I share about why, I mean, why I've been trying so hard to create this and get and not me create, but get you guys, all these other experienced teachers, including yourself, to give me um good, you know, in a good way, solutions to many of the challenges that teachers face is because I'm not very good at this. I mean, like it's one of them, one of my jokes is that I'm basically a bull in the China shop. And anytime I come across a challenge, I just run over it a couple of times, back the truck up, run over it a few more times, and just stomp it into the ground. And of course, when my university students ask me and they say, Well, how do you deal with these challenges? I'm like, Well, I can't give you a good answer because you can't do it the way I do it, and I shouldn't be doing it the way I do it. So I'm gonna get all these teachers who do it in a much better way than I do to give me their answers. And that's essentially what this document is. Some of the big barriers. I don't like using the word barriers. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Some of the big, some of the challenges or perceived barriers. Can I say perceived barriers? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Well, and that's the but that's the problem. I mean, before you say, I mean, because if a person says the word barrier, some people's knee-jerk response is to go, well, then I can't deal with it. Yeah, that's true. It's a barrier. That's right. Right. I mean, it's so funny. I mean, it was, it was, it's in so many conversations that I have with teachers. If if you say the word barrier, they go, well, then that's just that's just a barrier. I can't, I can't overcome it. It's like, no, it's a challenge. And if you and it's funny, like, I mean, it's just it's semantics. But if you say the word challenge, people are more likely to go, oh, well, okay, it's a challenge, and we can maybe overcome it. That's why I'm so persnickety about barriers and challenges. All right.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Well, challenges, challenges, uh, it it might be with like administrators or or something like that. Uh, like, you know, your higher-ups saying no. And uh this season we have Ian Wilson, former uh principal, coming on to talk about barriers, challenges, uh how to uh, you know, how he works with staff um to to build educators that can take kids outside. Um, but I think in my experience, a lot of times that we the that we we find ourselves with resistance from admin, it's because maybe they have questions. And so I've for me, I found that the best way to deal with that is just to ask, like, you know, what are the things that you would need lined up for this to happen, or what are the concerns that you have about this happening? And then I can listen to those concerns and I can, you know, either right there address them, or I can say, you know, thanks. Let me think about this and come back and meet with them again and say, okay, this is how I think that we can deal with this. Uh, and so I think that open communication, actually, like not just being like, you're dumb, this is gonna be great. Why can't you see it my way? But to are you are you have to point any fingers anywhere, but but to but you know, just that have that conversation of okay, what are your issues? Okay, let me make sure I can deal with those so that you understand that I'm doing this in a good way.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Well, exactly. And I mean, and and the reality is is that quite often when an you get pushback from, well, when you get pushback from anybody, when you get pushback from an administrator, a parent, a student, kid, anything, yeah, for sure. Exactly. It really it usually stems from they're just concerned. I mean, they they're inexperienced with it, they haven't seen it, they haven't experienced it themselves, right? And so they're like, Oh, I don't know, I don't how I mean I they don't know anything about it. So of course they're like, well, you know, how can I I can't, and I mean they they don't want to do it. So they're like, I'm not sure if it's they and they and and it's also possible they don't know you from a hole in the wall. This is true, right? I mean, either as a beginning teacher or a teacher new to that school, I mean, you if if uh again, if as a teacher new to that school, you come in and you're gonna be doing all these things and this is how you're gonna do it, whatever else. Well, you just like you have to lead students with progressions, you need to lead your admin and your parents with progressions.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

I think uh another challenge is that it costs cash to take buses places and to get get going. And so um what are some what are some thoughts on that in the that come up in the document?

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Well, so basically, I mean one of the things that comes up automatically with financial stuff, because fun, I mean things do cost money, but there are and and and if it's unfortunately it's kind of a perception of what constitutes outdoor learning. And lots of individuals have this idea that you know it's it's gotta be a big camping trip, or it's gotta be a big field trip, or it's gotta be, you know, like uh an expensive field trip for it to be valuable. And the reality is is just literally going outside into your own school playground, you know, and into your own school park or nearby parks or nearby libraries or things like that, you get the like anywhere from 90 to 100% of the same benefits and the same beneficial impacts of outdoor learning as you would if you do a big honking trip. Like you don't need to do. And that's my same response to secondary teachers, because that's one of the one of the other challenges that we talk about on this web page is the whole notion of secondary teachers, high school teachers quite often are concerned because of course it's very difficult from a schedule point of view to actually participate in you know a whole afternoon or a whole day trip or those sorts of things. But it doesn't have to be that. I mean, they it was like during COVID. Like during COVID, so many classrooms went outside on the front lawn of their own school. And I would drive by many of our high schools during the when the the year or this the school year we came back right after the COVID time. And so many, like so many of our high schools had so many classes on the front lawns, on the back lawn. And I was like, yes, here we go, right on. Yeah. And one year later, gone. Their lawns are empty again. It's like you just you miss the boat. I mean, like you can you can do it. You don't have to go outside for four hours. Yeah, you can go outside for 15 minutes, and that 15 minutes is still beneficial to your students and yourself and to their learning.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

And I mean, you you can go outside for 15 minutes and try it out, and then you can maybe go a little longer next time, or you can maybe think about things uh outdoors a little differently. And you know, that's free.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

That's easy. Exactly. Because I mean, again, it's a progression. I mean, everyone has this not so I shouldn't say everyone has this, that's a blanket statement, but lots of people get this idea that it's all or nothing.

unknown 30:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

And there's lots of room in between all and nothing.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

But like, you know, with you walking places, you can walk, you know, a decent distance in 25 minutes with a group of grade aights or a group of students or whatever, if you want to get out of the building and work somewhere for an afternoon, if you want a little further. Um, you could bike places. That's, you know, I mean, getting bikes is a little bit of an issue sometimes. Making sure that everybody is able to ride a bike, um, you know, and has access to one can be a bit of a challenge as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

But those are but those are valuable challenges too. Like the feeling too is when a person looks at something like that and they goes, Well, I've got kids that can't learn, I can't ride a bike. Well, then this is a great opportunity to actually teach them a lifelong skill on how to ride a bike.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Right. And I have uh an amazing uh student teacher working with me this year, and we had a student who wasn't able to ride a bike, and she like took a morning and worked with him for a morning. Uh, and he, you know, he went through a lot of different phases of hating riding, being excited in riding. And now, like at lunch hour, he'll just get a bike and rip around the school at lunch hour. Like he's oh, you know, three days later and he's riding a bike, and like that's something that she did because she took a couple hours and worked with this guy. So I think and now he has freedom that he didn't have before. So I think that's yeah, that's uh a worthwhile investment.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Well, and and there's nothing wrong with walking places. I mean, that that's actually again, I mean, that that that's your physical activity, that's your phys ed class, and that's and that's valuable talking time and collaboration time for your class. I mean, it's it's not a waste of time to have to take 30 minutes to walk to a location. And like you just said, I mean, and of course, it's interesting because of course, you know, what'll end up happening, especially the first time you go for that walk. The first time you go for that walk, half your kids will be dragging their butts and be super tired and whatever else. But like I've had many teachers talk to me about it. I mean, like by the time you get to November, December, all of a sudden they're all walking like crazy and they're all keeping up. And by the time you get to May and June, you know, there's no stopping them because of course they they get physically fit, which is a goal. Lifelong fitness, right? Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Uh, and so if you, you know, you're doing those things, but you actually want a little bit more cash flow to to do something, you know, some things you could reach out to, like, you know, your SCC might have some ideas. Um, you know, bottle dries are go go to. I enjoy uh float sales because they have a relatively low, you know, you go buy some cheap pop and some cheap ice cream, and then you can you can make some cash flow with float sales. Uh sometimes you can even set up with your local like recycling depot and put your name in, and people can drop stuff and it can go to your student account. Um, I know Sask Outdoors in in Saskatchewan has grants of 500 bucks that they accept. You can apply usually three times a year, like in October, in May, and in February. Uh and uh you you know, you might get chosen for$500. It can go a long way to do to do some outdoor learning. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

So, yeah, I mean, I and that that's where we're standing right now as far as the different challenges. I mean, and and I'd say to our listeners, I mean, if you can think of a challenge that you'd like us to address, or as you take a look at that webpage, I mean, with both the risk management and the challenges page, if you are taking a look at that stuff and you have an idea that's not on there and not represented on there, by all means, send it to us. We will add it to the list. I mean, this is a this is an organic, growing document. It's not, it's not done. It never will be done. As we get more ideas, in fact, at the upcoming uh outdoor learning conference uh in Saskatoon, we're gonna be that's one of the things we're actually gonna do, one of the tasks we're actually gonna be doing is an entire conference. I'm gonna be leveraging the fact that I have over a hundred conference attendees who are all interested in outdoor learning, and I'm going to be asking them to take a look at these things and come up with more ideas. Maybe we should shift gears and talk about that conference for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

That's a good idea. It's in Saskatoon. It's at the University of Saskatchewan. In the College of Ed building. In College of Ed in partnership with Saskatoors.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

And um what is that what does that look like for a so it's on Saturday, October 18th. Um it starts at, I think it starts at 8 45 a.m. Uh, it starts with a smudge offered by Tim Ashopi Sr. Um and he was going to do our opening land acknowledgments and opening opening our conference in a good way. And then there's basically, I mean, it's it's the third annual conference, and one of our goals always with this conference is to get experienced outdoor learning educators from around Saskatchewan to come present. Essentially, the the the only the only real directive that I give them is that whatever they present has to be practical and useful for teachers in outdoor learning. And it can be useful and practical. It benefits brand new teachers, it benefits experienced teachers. I mean, all this stuff. But the whole idea is that teachers should walk out of each session with takeaways and things that they can literally implement as soon as they get back to school on Monday.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

I I think last year um I one of the sessions I took in was a TARP session with uh Mitch Lowe. And I remember Mitch was like, Derek, do you know the pressic knot? And I said, No. And he said, I'm gonna change your life today. And he did since then, all summer long. I was, you know, all I was used, I've been using this pressing knot, and I've been saying to my wife, like, did you did you notice this knot up here? She's like, I don't care about your knots, but but it has been excellent.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Like it's it was a useful, even that one thing, you know, was great. Yes. Well, I have to say from our canoe trip this summer, I was very impressed with your knots. See, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Thank you to Mitch Lowe for that lesson from last year. Absolutely. Yeah, and I think there's also all kinds of stuff with like nature journaling. Mitch is another thing. There's compassing, there's stuff around like gardening, there's stuff around storytelling, stuff around like you know, Sasha.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Oh, are you looking at are you looking at the actual conference thing?

SPEAKER_02 36:08

I am, yeah. Oh, I should be doing that. Yeah, absolutely. So there's quite a few, quite a few cool things that are on the list. I'm gonna do something connected to hide tanning. So, so there'll be some cool, there'll be lots of lots of stuff. And it's uh it's one day, so there's no sub cost on the Saturday for you. Yeah, it's uh, you know, it's kind of a pay as you are able to, you know,$45. Um, or you know, if you are able to,$45 is a supported rate, or you can pay$90 as uh, you know, help um kind of ramp things up for the organization. And uh, you know, that includes lunch, a pretty delightful lunch, I think. So, you know, that's a$45, pretty affordable day learning how to get outside. And uh, you know, whether you're an intern, a student teacher, uh thinking about education, uh, early childhood educator, uh university prof, you know, anywhere in between, there's probably sessions that you can that you can take and apply pretty quickly to what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Absolutely. No, it's I mean, it's it's it's been very well attended and it's been very well received. And all we all we get all the time is feedback about how much they've learned. And I mean, it's almost to be perfectly blunt, lots of them indicate it's almost overwhelming how much. I mean, they I mean, it's quite funny when I because I have my university students who attend write up reflections and they just rave on and on about all the different things that were available. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

So that's on October 18th, and I think there's still time to register. Yep. But uh, you probably want to get on that.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

It does, it it can fill up. Yeah. I mean, we do have a limit on how many people we can handle. So I mean, if you want to make sure that you're actually registered, the sooner you register the better. We'll uh we'll put a link to that in the show notes.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

There you go. Awesome. Well, I think that pretty much does it for today. That's a pretty good uh session. Anything else you wanted to add uh today there, Chris?

SPEAKER_00 38:01

No, I don't think so. I think it's it's just good to be back chatting with you in this context and uh spreading the word again.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

We look forward to a great season two.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Stay tuned for more adventures. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Outdoor Learning Podcast. All the links and references mentioned are linked in the show notes, so check it out and dive a little deeper if that's your thing. This podcast is recorded on Treaty Six Territory in the homeland of the Metis. If you know someone who would appreciate this podcast, share the love and pass it on. If you've got ideas for episode topics, hit the send us a text button in the show notes and let us know. And if you really want to amp things up, head over to wherever you're listening to this podcast and leave us a review. We appreciate the feedback.